Curse

Daesu · Apr 02, 2012, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillotine Princess

/not signed..........create another character instead.

That means even if the older character has 29 titles, we should delete it and start anew?

That is not fair to the older character and the player who has made all that effort. If ANet doesn't want to fix this, then the easy way out is to just go for Sweet Tooth like many other GWAMMs. It is either Sweet Tooth or max an account-wide title. I would hope ANet would provide more variety for GWAMM for their longer term customer than that though.

It is not that I personally can't obtain GWAMM without this fix, I just feel that this should be the right fix to make for those customers who bought the game and left pre-searing before titles even existed. Afterall, 7 years after GW2 release, the ones who are going to be asking for a GW2 fix because they have bought the game when it was just released and features were left out until later would hope for the same thing I do, without having to delete and re-create their characters.

MithranArkanere · Apr 02, 2012, 02:15 AM // 02:15

It's not viable.

Even if you make a 'copy' of pre-Searing to send your characters there by talking with Symon the scribe, and you had some kind of effect to level up while you are there and that also fixes your skills and attributes to those you'll have in pre depending on your level and professions, and also reduced your armor to match pre-Searing, and even forced you to use some low-level weapon, it would still be too much work for a title that can already be added to the account via Kimmes the historian, and that isn't needed for GWAMM.

Daesu · Apr 02, 2012, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

It's not viable.

Even if you make a 'copy' of pre-Searing to send your characters there by talking with Symon the scribe, and you had some kind of effect to level up while you are there and that also fixes your skills and attributes to those you'll have in pre depending on your level and professions, and also reduced your armor to match pre-Searing, and even forced you to use some low-level weapon, it would still be too much work for a title that can already be added to the account via Kimmes the historian, and that isn't needed for GWAMM.

All the information that is needed to create a level 1 pre searing character is your choice of face, height, and your primary profession. It is just a matter of saving your post searing character info in a database somewhere (which they already do), then swap that out to an empty inventory, and starter equipment. It would look like the "familiar hero" in the new April Fool's quest but with starter skills.

haileyannesdad · Apr 02, 2012, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Too bad our old prophecies characters cannot go back to pre-searing and earn their "Legendary Defender of Ascalon" title, through the new quests, anymore. At the time when these characters were created, the new LDoA quests didn't exist and getting LDoA was too much of a pain, but now getting the title is a lot easier.

Unfortunately, we can't go back in time into pre-searing to acquire the LDoA title through these quests. I wish there is a time machine that would allow us to do that (like they have done for the April Fool's day...), but make that feature permanent.

Each character can only use that time machine once to earn LDoA and when they have returned from pre-searing, they can't go back to pre-searing anymore. When they are in pre-searing they are back to level 1 with starter armor, so they legitimately earn their LDoA title from there just like any other new character.

When they have returned to post-searing, all their stuff (inventory items, skills, attributes, equipment, etc.) are restored.

This will make the path toward GWAMM as fair to the older characters. There is no reason to be biased against older characters when it comes to attaining GWAMM. Right now, there is just no way for post-searing prophecies characters to get LDoA if they did not get it during their pre-searing days. In fact, my characters were created and progressed into post-searing before the LDoA title even existed! This means if I want to make them GWAMM, I have to lose out on a title.

You don't need this title for GWAMM. My main is a factions char who was never able to go to pre and I have GWAMM and 50/50 in hom. You say it's not fair for older chars to not be able to get ldoa but any char not created in Proph can never get it and we get by just fine.
/not signed.

Eragon Selene · Apr 02, 2012, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Yes yes I am sure we are all in awe of your achievements. Again, learn to READ, like I have already said, it is possible to get GWAMM without LDoA, but the options are very limited or they are grindy and/or highly expensive. The choices are so limited that you only have Sweet Tooth or grind/pay dearly for an account-wide title.

Sure you can go max Kurzick/Luxon, max Lucky/Unlucky, max Treasure Hunter or even Wisdom or PvP. I am just saying that expecting players to max account-wide title is grindy and/or expensive. The other way is to do it through Sweet Tooth, but spammable sweets are harder to obtain in bulk than Alcohol or spammable party items.

Going through LDoA would be a more logical choice and should remain an available choice to characters who have left pre-searing back in early 2005, before titles were even heard of, in this game. It is not reasonable to penalize them just because they couldn't have known about the future back then. If newer characters have that option, the same options should be available to those older characters too.

You should take your own advise and READ as well......I could care less what you think about my achivements. I was only making a point that without trying, through normal game play and working on the OTHER titles you will come close to max in some account wide titles. It would require little EFFORT to finish them off.

Why make it EASY to get GWAMM, they have already taken away the significance of Survivor and LDOA. Whats next.......start and new character and poof get GWAMM.

Spammable sweets will be falling from the sky this weekend.

Cartographer
Guardian
Protector
Skill Hunter
Vanquisher
Sunspear
Lightbringer
Asura
Deldrimor
Ebon Vanguard
Master of the North
Kurzick
Luxon
Survivor
Legendary Cartographer
Legendary Guardian
Legendary Skill Hunter
Legendary Vanquisher
Drunkard
Party Animal

Easy way to 30...........far more easy then when MOST of us got it

Daesu · Apr 02, 2012, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Selene

Why make it EASY to get GWAMM, they have already taken away the significance of Survivor and LDOA. Whats next.......start and new character and poof get GWAMM.

Again, how is this making it easier?

You provide old characters with the same options as the new characters. Old characters go back to pre-searing as level 1 with starter equipment, no skills and empty inventory same as a brand new character.

Where does the "making it easier to get GWAMM" part, relative to new characters, come in?

The point I am trying to make which you seem to be missing in every of my post is that titles did not exist back when GW1 was first released, so people played the game without knowledge of Survivor or LDoA, as if these titles don't exist. Can you really blame them for that?

After these titles came into being, they were EXCLUDED from them because the initial game design didn't cater for them. Which means they have to delete their characters which they have grown emotional attachments to, discard any achievements which they have earned then, and re-create them if they want to be included. Whose fault is that? Should the players have known the future beforehand? Certainly not!

If it is not the player's fault, then why should they pay extra money to buy new character slots OR have all their achievements then DISCARDED, repeat their achievements on a newly created character after deleting their old ones? Explain to me how this is fair to the older players who have supported GW all that while. This is something that ANet should have fixed a long time ago!

Again I am not talking about you or anyone else personally. I am aware that some players with older characters just take it and re-create them, grind an account-wide title, or just go with Sweet Tooth. The principle remains that to fix an initial game design flaw through discarding the player's previous efforts/achievements, or by us dishing out more money is still WRONG! And just because "John Doe" just take it and paid up, either through money or extra in-game efforts, doesn't make it right all of a sudden.

Aeronwen · Apr 02, 2012, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Daesu, It seems to me that you are missing the point.

LDoA already bears no resemblance and shows you did a very different thing than when it was introduced. Remember some people got to 20 in in pre before titles were introduced - just for the fun of it.

Every time Anet gives in to the whiners and makes the titles easier to get they also make them more pointless. TBH at this point if you want things even easier than they are now, you might just as well ask for all chars to simply be given the titles.

Just call for Anet to hand out LDoA to every char - after all we can all get it now if we can only be bothered to do a few easy quests with a free extra fire ele.

Gill Halendt · Apr 02, 2012, 07:55 AM // 07:55

The best solution for this (for me, non existent) problem would be... LDoA not to count toward GWAMM. There you have it, the fairness issue is gone.

And maybe even make it pre-searing exclusive, so that you loose it if you leave. Tough I believe it's too late for such a change: should have been like this since the very start, but Anet is not known for reasoned planning...

drkn · Apr 02, 2012, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Again, how is this making it easier?

You provide old characters with the same options as the new characters. Old characters go back to pre-searing as level 1 with starter equipment, no skills and empty inventory same as a brand new character.

Where does the "making it easier to get GWAMM" part, relative to new characters, come in?

Thank you for ignoring my previous post in this thread. So let me repeat it:
The notion of age is what evens the things out. Old players should have had enough time to get an Allegiance/Sweet/whatever title instead of LDoA. New players will not even have a chance to max out Kurzick/Luxon, unless they want to grind 10+h/day, so this is where LDoA might be appealing for newcomers.
But it's not.
New players don't really like the idea of spending over a week in the tutorial area, with no new skills, no new storyline, etc. They leave pre-searing asap, making LDoA a title to get and add to HoM by the completionists, not people going after GWAMM whatsoever.
So, to point it out again - old and somewhat dedicated players don't need LDoA for GWAMM; new players will not use LDoA for GWAMM. Only really completionist newcomers or people who come back after a hiatus of five years, with no titles maxed on their primary characters, might benefit from the current state of LDoA, GWAMM-wise.
And, well, that's completely fine.

If you want old players let get LDoA, by the way, you should also postulate an alternative title for the Factions and NF noob islands. Why a rit must be gimped on their way to GWAMM, right?

Coast · Apr 02, 2012, 10:55 AM // 10:55

make it account wide and then we won't have any shitters like in this thread type: "/not signed" anymore k thx bye

LanaDarkess · Apr 02, 2012, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

If they have told us that there would be such things as titles and we would be giving up on LDoA when we leave pre, we could have made an informed decision. But obviously they didn't tell us.

They obviously didn't tell you because maybe they were still being prepared, perhaps? Did you think of that?

Also; it even says in Sir Tydus' dialogue "....Once we leave, there will be no turning back. You may not see friends or family for quite a while. If you have unfinished business, attend to it before we go."

Even if there were no such thing as titles, it makes it CLEAR in the dialogue that you CANNOT return, titles or no.

If you're so desperate for LDoA, which isn't necessary for GWAMM, you're going to have to do the same as everyone else here who did the same thing as you by leaving pre.

Make a new character.
Farm xp to lvl 20.
Quit whinging.

fires element · Apr 02, 2012, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

The best solution for this (for me, non existent) problem would be... LDoA not to count toward GWAMM. There you have it, the fairness issue is gone.

And maybe even make it pre-searing exclusive, so that you loose it if you leave. Tough I believe it's too late for such a change: should have been like this since the very start, but Anet is not known for reasoned planning...

i like this answer. i guess i wouldn't have a problem if they wiped the character template back to zero. you can keep your titles but every skill you have gotten is gone and has to be rebought or captured if elite, all your armors and weapons disappear and not just held in some form of storage.

Kook~NBK~ · Apr 02, 2012, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Again, how is this making it easier?

If you factor in all of the short-cuts, synergies and other little tricks (spending IG cash on them) to make the various PvE titles easier to obtain, getting LDoA is still easier to get than:

Any Guardian, any Vanquisher, any Skill Hunter, and any Cartographer titles.

Any of the EotN rep. titles.

Master of the North.

Party, Sweet, and Drunkard. (The stuff needed doesn't just pop into your inventory out of thin air, after all)

Sunspear and Lightbringer.

Replace any one of those titles (LMotN, I'm looking at you!) with LDoA and you've made obtaining GWAMM much easier.

(I'm sure an arguement could be made for adding Survivor to the above, but I'm not the one to make it.)

shinta_himura · Apr 02, 2012, 03:41 PM // 15:41

"Once you leave pre, that's it. The story progresses and the world changes. "

I just wanted to say that this is not valid anymore because there is tons of precedent for reliving or reminiscing about past, "over and done with" events, even without the non-canon April Fools time travel gimmick.

- Bonus Mission pack, all the missions are in the past.
- Early Proph/Factions/Nightfall missions on foreigners
- Hearts of the North, you go back in the past to follow Keiran
- Winds of Change, you can take a quest to relive the Plague and Afflicted spawns.

Make a new story book called, "The Life and Times of [player]", require an empty inventory, empty equipment and 0 gold to press Enter, reset level to 0 upon entering. You can leave somehow to go back to your powered up character but if you go back again, you're level 0 again. This will also maintain the value of perma-pres, since players won't be able to exist in post while maintaining a built up pre status on the same character.

Maybe a tad beyond what Anet can manage right now with their resources, but it's not unreasonable to expect them to be able to figure it out if they wanted to do it.

GWAMM is already meaningless because rich players can buy their way through it, what are you complaining about?

Oh no a cool new feature might add a new text string to someone's account, that text string will be devalued!!~ I paid good money for mine!!~ Just buy another character!!~ Obviously everyone is expected to have empty char slots lying around!!~ -- Naysayers

And to those of you really citing Sir Tydus, take a look through the game's history at all the times anet has turned around on their policies. I can't believe you think an NPC dialogue is a law written in stone. It's been almost 7 years since that was written, I think that's enough time-penalty for someone who left pre.

fires element · Apr 02, 2012, 04:10 PM // 16:10

yes it has been 7 years since that was written and yes you can go back to relive events that happened in the past. but i have one question to ask to all the people that say this feature should be implemented: (and answer honestly not just answer to make it fit your argument)

would you really have stayed in pre for 7 years to await the vanguard quests if you knew anet would put them in at a future date or even to death-level for months on end to reach level 20 for a title?

Andemius · Apr 02, 2012, 04:31 PM // 16:31

I'd be 100% behind a way to allow characters which came from prophecies before titles to be allowed a way to restrspectively attain LDoA. If I had known I could get LDoA by making L20 in pre before, I would not have left. As it is, in my own case and many others, we brought our characters through when LDoA did not exist.

For characters created after LDoA I'd say that you ought to have got it then if you wanted it.

Seems a tad unfair to put players who have been around for ages at a disadvantage by comparison to newer players. I don't have unlimited time to sink into a new title char or re-roll my current one. At 29/30, LDoA would have been really useful.

Daesu · Apr 02, 2012, 05:53 PM // 17:53

So many replies, so I can reply to some of them

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeronwen

Daesu, It seems to me that you are missing the point.

LDoA already bears no resemblance and shows you did a very different thing than when it was introduced. Remember some people got to 20 in in pre before titles were introduced - just for the fun of it.

Yes by the time they have reached level 20 and proclaim it to this forum, many of us have already left pre-searing at lower levels so we didn't even know that level 20 in pre-searing was even possible at the time when many of us left pre-searing.

There were also no such thing as titles or GWAMM at that time so there was no reason for anyone to grind to level 20 through that painful method.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LanaDarkness

Also; it even says in Sir Tydus' dialogue "....Once we leave, there will be no turning back. You may not see friends or family for quite a while. If you have unfinished business, attend to it before we go."

You missed the point. Sir Tydus didn't mention that there will be such things as "Titles" in early 2005 and leaving pre-searing means giving up on LDoA which was a title not even created yet at that time! How were the first players in pre-searing suppose to know what they would be giving up on in the future?

@Gil: I am fine with that too.

@Coast: Making it account wide would be fine with me also.

@Kook: First of all, you are going OT, this thread is about LDoA and GWAMM. Second, the characters going back to pre-searing would have the same equipment and blank skill bar at level 1 just like a new character so it would be the same as any new character, not easier.

@drk: I didn't reply to you because you are expanding this to something big and OT. Furthermore, some of your points have already been brought up by other posters. If it is a matter of fairness between new and old characters, then if old characters need about X hours to get LDoA+GWAMM then new characters should take about X hours too so that amount of effort is comparable.

Kook~NBK~ · Apr 02, 2012, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

@Kook: First of all, you are going OT, this thread is about LDoA and GWAMM. Second, the characters going back to pre-searing would have the same equipment and blank skill bar at level 1 just like a new character so it would be the same as any new character, not easier.

First of all, how is answering your question about the difficulty OT when in your OP (and many of your other posts - see #8, 12, 15, and 26) you bring up the question of difficulty? Secondly, getting the LDoA from scratch IS easier to get than those titles I listed. (Unless you don't have access to a Fire Imp, that is.)

Songbringer · Apr 02, 2012, 07:16 PM // 19:16

My assassin can't get LDoA please Anet let me go to pre and obtain it...

You have no less of a chance to get GWaMM then any other char not made in Prophecies.

Get over it. IMO getting LDoA makes GWaMM harder because you spend like 2-4 weeks getting 1 title. You know how many other titles can be gotten in a month...

/notsigned to ever letting any1 ever going back to pre after they have left ever ever ever....never ever /notsigned!

bleh · Apr 02, 2012, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Why is the topic so long :P.

OP time machine idea : /not signed

LDOA Account wide suggestion: /signed